Iwo Jima - 65th Anniversary

[Lt. Hanley]

Well, 65 years ago the battle for Iwo Jima was raging. Here's a site that has some radio broadcasts from Iwo. Just thought I'd share.

http://www.otr.com/iwo_jima.html

[Onearmy]

A lot of lives were lost in the battle for that small island..... No one should ever have to see what those men went through, and I salute those who made it out.

[napalmi]

Salutes also to those Japanese men who refused to let go and fought to the last man.

[Wolfsburg]

I know an Iwo vet of the 5th Marine Division and his experiences there are something he'll only occasionally talk about. He was lucky enough to be one of the few GIs who made it off the island without being a casualty. He has talked about how it was a common Japanese tactic to torture POWs within earshot of the front lines in the hopes that the screams would lure out GIs who would attempt to mount a rescue and then mow them down with MG fire if they dared to venture forth. So the Marines learned to stay put and listen to the screams of their friends throughout the night. The Japanese get very little sympathy from me.

[napalmi]

War is war, both sides always do horrible things no matter what nationality. For example Americans killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in a blink of an eye when they dropped the atom bombs. Plus all the nasty side-effects the survivors had to endure due to nuclear fallouts. There is always someone who takes it a bit too far, but there are also those who are true heroes and commit their lifes for others well-being.

[Wolfsburg]

...and ended the war and in turn prevented the deaths of countless more on both sides. You can rationalize it all you want but any perceived American (or British, or Australian, etc.) injustices pale in comparison with the brutality typically exhibited by the Japanese in Asia and the Pacific from the '30s-'45.

[napalmi]

Okay, let's take a step back. Just making sure that I'm not in the favor of Japanese and their methods nor am I in the favor of the Americans and their methods. I'm viewing the whole situation from a neutral standpoint. Just saying that Japanese did a good job defending their country and culture. And I pressure the word 'defending'. I don't accept torture, and I'm not talking about individuals here but of the whole country. But I understand this is a touchy subject so I'm willing to leave it here.

[Sgt So and So]

World War Two was fucked up, morality-wise, on both sides. You can't look to any one side and say they're scotch-free of brutality. Everybody has their sins, regardless of who won.

I personally think the US is just as guilty of indiscriminate civilian killing and population pacification/subjugation as the traditional Japanese armies were, especially late in the war. Just because we used bombs instead of bayonets shouldn't make us feel any less guilty. Even if we didn't pay reparations, we should still hold ourselves accountable and not justify our actions with wartime victory. The US still has a long way to go in terms of accepting its military's injustices, especially with the whole "hate the war, unconditionally adore the soldier" thing being vogue right now.

On the other hand, the Japanese did have Unit 731, which was probably the scariest military group East of the Urals. The US, as far as I know, had no comparable scientific research group, though you can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Hells Angel]

Just to say I'd rather not have to move this thread to political discussions. You're more than welcome to continue it there but no more here please.

[Wolfsburg]

That's a fair request. I'll just say my piece and be done.


I take issue with paying respects to "defenders" who were trying to prolong an already long, devastating war. Let's not forget Japan was the aggressor in this to begin with. They deserved whatever that got, as callous as that might sound.

I'm not at all saying the Allies are scot-free of any injustices but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that anything the Allies did equates to events like the Rape of Nanking or the Bataan Deathmarch, to name two famous examples. While the result may be the same, coldly bombing a population to try and bring the end of the war just a bit closer is not quite the same as gang raping a teenage girl in front of her family and then bayonetting her vagina, or forcing families to commit incest at gunpoint, or cutting unborn babies from their mothers and all the while, gleefully doing this. I'm sure this was all done to "defend" Japan's interests. I'm not saying there weren't bad eggs within the Allied forces, but I've never heard of anything like this being done on the scale Japan was known for. Perhaps I am ignorant. If any of this was done by Allied forces on a similar scale, I'd be interested in learning more about it.

I also think intent makes a big difference. Whatever perceived large scale Allied injustices that I know about (such as the nukes) were done to end the war while Japan's wanton maliciousness and brutality were done for nothing other than expansionism and bringing in resources to the its "Co-Prosperity Sphere", which really was just a means for Japan to prosper while it brutalized everyone else.

[napalmi]

That's a fair point. Also considering in Finland we haven't been taught what brutalities the Japanese did, only the overall strategies used in the battles. I can imagine that in USA they educate their students differently and more in-depth with this matter, which is only logical because it's also part of America's history. With that said, I rest my case and hope no ill feelings rose out of this conversation.

[Wolfsburg]

Not at all! I think we just hail from different perspectives.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Originally Posted by napalmi

War is war, both sides always do horrible things no matter what nationality. For example Americans killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in a blink of an eye when they dropped the atom bombs. Plus all the nasty side-effects the survivors had to endure due to nuclear fallouts. There is always someone who takes it a bit too far, but there are also those who are true heroes and commit their lifes for others well-being.

Could you not add to the stereotype that all Europeans are apologist and liberals?

[metsapeikko]

Originally Posted by Fozzy The Bear

Could you not add to the stereotype that all Europeans are apologist and liberals?

But Europeans are apologist and liberals.

[Hells Angel]

Right i know where this is going. Closed and continue if you like in the politics section